NFL 2023 Schedule Release

#2
by IlluminatusUIUC // May 10, 2023 – 11:46am

How about a “home” game where you have to travel but the “away” team is already there? Being the second half of that London swing is BS for Buffalo.

#4
by Chuckc // May 10, 2023 – 12:38pm

Given the amount of money teams spend on their local legislature I think this is very unlikely

#5
by BigRichie // May 10, 2023 – 12:50pm

Unconstitutional, to boot.

#8
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 10, 2023 – 1:36pm

What part of it?

#13
by BigRichie // May 10, 2023 – 5:49pm

A state regulating interstate commerce. (even were both teams in-state, the broadcast goes outside of it)

A state ordering a private company to label its product this-way instead of that-way. Like ordering Campbell’s Soup to use blue rather than red on its labels. Good luck on that in the courts.

#14
by serutan // May 10, 2023 – 7:12pm

A state regulating interstate commerce. (even were both teams in-state, the broadcast goes outside of it)

The NFL is a nationwide entity which makes it interstate commerce regardless of any other consideration.

#38
by RickD // May 12, 2023 – 10:21am

Are you arguing that businesses that operate both in and out of a state are beyond a state’s jurisdiction?

That’s dubious.

#20
by IlluminatusUIUC // May 11, 2023 – 11:20am

A state ordering a private company to label its product this-way instead of that-way. Like ordering Campbell’s Soup to use blue rather than red on its labels. Good luck on that in the courts.

Your labeling example happens all the time – the California Prop 65 warning is a common example, but it’s not alone in that regard.

If the state were going to try something like this, it would likely have to be included in the contract when they handed out state funds for a stadium. “Must play X home games a season or pay a penalty” etc.

#17
by Mike B. In Va // May 11, 2023 – 8:57am

That doesn’t stop laws from being passed. It just redistributes wealth to lawyers.

#22
by MJK // May 11, 2023 – 11:21am

I think a state legislature could figure out a way to do it constitutionally. They could mandate that any professional sports team that wishes to receive public assistance from the state or cities within the state (including things like police at games, public transit to and from the stadium, and especially teams getting public financing for their stadiums) play at least 50% of their regular season games within the state borders, or else lose that support. They’re not controlling interstate commerce then; they’re just tying the support of their state’s resources to teams that play at least half their games there.

They could also do it with tax laws… the state could pass a tax law that would massively tax ownership of a sports team or revenue generated by a professional sports team in the state… and they put a clause in that waives the tax increase if the team plays at least 50% of its games in the state borders. The tax increase could be massive enough that it would put a dent in the shared revenue that goes to the league. I think that approach is clearly constitutional, in the same way that it is consititutional for Massachusetts or California or whoever to tax business activity in their state even if that is conducted by out-of-staters.

#29
by BigRichie // May 11, 2023 – 3:12pm

Neither tax nor other laws can single out an individual entity.

While negotiating a subsidy, yes, the state/locality could negotiate in just about anything they can get the franchise to agree to. Afterwards? Uh-uh.

#34
by PackerPete // May 12, 2023 – 8:02am

Hard for every team to play at least half its games at home in a 17 game schedule. As the league has adopted an approach of 9 home games one season, 8 home games the next season, will the penalties just apply every other year?

I would imagine that teams playing overseas offer tickets for the foreign game to season ticket holders but don’t charge for that game in the basic season ticket fee that year. As the fans aren’t charged for the foreign game and that the game is available on television or streaming services that the fans can access, hard to figure a possible legal challenge to what a private league wants to do. Who has standing to sue?

#35
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 8:58am

Teams charge for pre-season games. Why on earth do you think they don’t charge for foreign games?

#41
by BigRichie // May 12, 2023 – 10:58am

Ought to be some season ticket holder on here who can address this, you’d think. (or is every last one of us just too poor?)

Prior to which, my $$$ is with Packer Pete. I cannot imagine telling a Jacksonville Jaguar season ticket holder ‘OK, you also owe us $100 (just about every season) for this game in Munich. Just gotta get yourself there, is all’.

#69
by Mike B. In Va // May 15, 2023 – 11:36am

Seems to me like that’s exactly what they’d do. Have you met NFL owners?

#39
by RickD // May 12, 2023 – 10:25am

I shouldn’t think any state legislature would want to take on the power of the NFL directly. For starters, they would be on legal thin ground. And most state legislatures would be overwhelmed by the financial resources of the NFL. And would this be a political winner? Just to get one home game protected? Maybe once per decade?

State governments are in constant competition to make their states more business-friendly. I cannot imagine such a process getting initiated.

Of course, that wouldn’t stop the occasional legislator from loudly speaking about the NFL, as Arlen Specter did fifteen years ago. But it would just be so much theater.

#44
by Raiderfan // May 12, 2023 – 1:21pm

“State governments are in constant competition to make their states more business-friendly.”

Clearly, you do not live in California.

#45
by theslothook // May 12, 2023 – 1:35pm

San Francisco is the epicenter of a city doing everything it can to strangle the golden goose. If it weren’t for nearby Silicon Valley, San Francisco would be Detroit 2.0 right now.

#57
by bravehoptoad // May 12, 2023 – 9:35pm

More likely it would just become a cute little bedroom community with a touristy downtown. That’s what it was becoming in the 90s.

#59
by theslothook // May 12, 2023 – 10:09pm

Having lived there somewhat recently and as someone who visits quite often (we are in SF right now as of this comment), it has some pretty bad problems that have seriously eroded the quality of life in the city. There’s a terrific Ethiopian restaurant in the tenderloin that to get there on foot means walking through streets filled with drug addicts and drug dealers. I didn’t really care as I was used to it, but it scares plenty of people who aren’t familiar with that kind of scene.

It wasn’t always this way, but its decidedly gotten worse and I’ve been visiting SF since I was kid. That said, I still miss living there, but as a car owner, I intentionally parked up a giant hill so that they never broke into my car. Unfortunately, that’s one of many all too common problems with the city these days.

#62
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 9:01am

Frankly, it sounds like Detroit, but more expensive.

#66
by bravehoptoad // May 15, 2023 – 9:36am

Dude, you need to use sarcastic font when you’re being sarcastic.

#77
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 3:56pm

Detroit has gotten weird. The city has emptied out to much (it’s down to a third of its maximum population) that it doesn’t even have that many panhandlers/homeless, because there’s not enough people left to keep them going.

The flipside though is that you are an obvious target and there’s no one around to help. Detroit doesn’t have *many* panhandlers, but the ones it has are aggressive. They will chase you down.

The strongest sense of Detroit is that everything is too large. The buildings, the streets, the area. Everything. There aren’t enough people for all the space. It’s almost Lovecraftian, or 15 minutes after the apocalypse. I know people who have hit pheasant on city streets, because urban prairie became a thing. I’ll say this, though — if you stuck it out, but price of living is pretty low. Everything is pretty affordable.

I’m not sure that will happen to SF, both for good and for ill. If SF does hollow out, it may bring prices down enough that the middle class moves back in. But if it doesn’t… oof. Stagflated is a bad place to be.

#101
by bravehoptoad // May 19, 2023 – 2:56pm

Yeah, that doesn’t sound anything at all like San Francisco. It doesn’t sound unpleasant, particularly, but SF is a pretty vibrant place atm, and quite popular.

#65
by bravehoptoad // May 15, 2023 – 9:34am

I lived there from ’93 to ’20, and the tenderloin has always been scrungy. It’s gotten a lot more upscale since the ’90s.

People make the mistake of thinking that the presence of homeless people is a sign of flaws in a city, but the reason homeless people are there is because San Francisco takes care of them. If you see a city with no homeless people, that’s a screwed-up city. They’ve all had to leave.

San Francisco’s crime rate is at historic lows right now. It’s one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world. The property prices are sky-high because of demand. It’s got neighborhoods that rival anywhere on the planet for sheer pure cute.

Still, here are people making vague, anecdotal complaints about the place.

#67
by BigRichie // May 15, 2023 – 10:51am

If you bother to Google ‘San Francisco crime rate’, you’ll get a truer picture. To what should be no one’s surprise, it’s pretty much smack dab in the middle of Slot and Brave.

This is really a simple value distinction. Slot believes homelessness speaks poorly of a city per se, Brave believes it speaks well of a city per se. Whichever is closer to your own view, go ahead and take your place in that line.

#68
by theslothook // May 15, 2023 – 11:01am

Ok, some thoughts:

1. Contrary to most people, I don’t mind that they’ve decriminalized drug dealing. I don’t think it’s great policy sending people to jail for dealing drugs because there’s a never-ending demand for it and all you are doing in the alternative is sending waves of people to jail and filling up our prisons. I am very libertarian on this topic.

2. I’d like to see the numbers on this, but I believe SF’s generous homeless services are a big attraction for the homeless to congregate in SF. The usual story is homelessness is primarily made up of SF residents driven to the streets by sky high prices, but I am skeptical of that. If you are homeless, SF ostensibly is a pretty lousy place to be homeless. Its cold and rainy and has pretty busy streets with lots of noise. I’d rather be in Santa Monica(which also has a gigantic homeless population). In other words, the services are a pretty big magnet for the state’s homeless. Much like Oregon is about to be with its very lenient set of policies. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is an interesting question, although even the very compassionate people that I meet are usually the first ones to call the cops if homeless set up a camp in their neighborhoods or shoot up drugs near their kids’ schools. Everyone’s first preference is compassion from a distance.

3. I do not trust crime stats for any major city, including San Francisco. Juking the stats appears to be a nationwide problem in seemingly all aspects, including education and crime.

4.I also don’t like trusting anecdotes either, but having lived and worked in SF for 5 years lets you witness lots and lots of things. And since you don’t like vagueness, I will be painfully detailed. My friend’s wife was chased down the streets by a deranged homeless woman wielding a knife. They lived on Howard and Folsom. A classmate of mine abruptly left the city after a homeless man broke into his apartment looking for drugs. Another high school classmate of mine almost had his daughter kidnapped right in front of him. https://www.ktvu.com/news/san-francisco-kidnap-attempt-leaves-father-in-shock-possibly-homeless-woman-arrested

I have seen one homeless person smash another with a two by four. While walking down the tenderloin, I heard a bottle whizzing over my head, aimed at a woman walking ahead of me. It happily missed her. Many of my female colleagues did not feel safe at night alone in SF. I personally witnessed a drive by shooting and death at the Western Addition McDonalds while coming out of the bathroom. There is a police station literally a block away btw. Visit any of the grocery stores and just about everything worth stealing(except $50 bottles of wine) is behind glass and requires an attendant to retrieve. Yes, even the cheap Vodka is treated like grandma’s pearls. I’ve seen fist fights breakout between embattled security guards against shoplifters and thieves. Thank god that wasn’t Marlo Stanfield. Absolutely none of these events, except for the murder and attempted kidnapping, were reported to the police. Visit the bart station on Powell or Montgomery, especially at night, and it will remind you of a zombie movie. Drug addicts strung out or sleeping on the floor and riders needing to sift carefully around them, used needles, or human feces. I don’t think these are isolated incidents affecting only me and some people around me. https://abc7news.com/sf-tourism-san-francisco-streets-international-travelers-conventions-in/12227886/

5. It’s not just the tenderloin. *Deep Breaths* visit Soma, Mission, Richmond, North Beach, Fidi, parts of Haight Ashbury, and Hayes Valley and you will see homelessness eroding the quality of life. I have seen parents walking their kids to school and passing around a homeless person defecating into a bush on the plain sidewalk. Both the dad and the kid paid them no mind; as if it was so common an occurrence that there was nothing unusual or disgusting about it. Another day in SF. I used to work on California and Sansom. Drum Street is absolutely filthy. The Parks nearby and areas between FIDI and the ferry building along with the entire Embarcadero are littered with trash. Walk down any part of market street, beginning at Van Ness and or the Ferry building and you will see parades of homeless and drug addicts. I used to walk that daily on my way home after work. Not all of SF is like that of course. I had a studio in Pac Heights and so those areas north of Pine Street and West of Van Ness connecting to the Marina are nice. Presidio is absolutely gorgeous and largely free of the homeless. Even still, car break ins are numerous and I sure as hell would never own a Prius if I still lived there(or anywhere in the Bay Area for that matter, two of our friends have had their catalytic converters ripped off). https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/catalytic-converter-theft-exodus-17838594.php

6. People are leaving SF and are clearly dissatisfied with the quality of life. Chesa Boudin was recalled for a reason and it wasn’t exclusively because he pissed off the police union and the prosecutors office. Once more, I actually agreed with his softer stance on drug dealing, but the catch and release policy when it came to more serious felonies was a real thumb in the eye. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-francisco/sf-da-boudin-blamed-by-some-for-release-of-parolee-suspected-of-fatal-nye-hit-and-run/2435759/

7. Through all of this, SF remains a ridiculously expensive city and that’s squarely due to onerous regulations on building that has made it a nightmare to build new housing. When demand is high and supply is kept small, prices explode. Another sad fact of Bay Area politics that appears to snare even self described free market libertarians like Mark Andreesen or celebrity sports stars like Steph Curry. Nimbyism appears to be a bipartisan consensus.

8. In spite of everything I wrote above, I will always cherish my time in San Francisco. I loved living in the city and miss aspects of it all the time. I got to work and live around a diverse group of people very much outside of the bubble of Saratoga California. The doorman of my building is still a great friend who I keep in contact with years later. I simply never would have met him if I wasn’t in SF. I also love the Bay Area. Despite all of the problems it has, I plan to live here the rest of my life.

Added some more links.

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/common-sense-policy-reforms-california-housing#

#76
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 3:52pm

If you are homeless, SF ostensibly is a pretty lousy place to be homeless. Its cold and rainy and has pretty busy streets with lots of noise. I’d rather be in Santa Monica(which also has a gigantic homeless population).

SF is still a pretty nice place to be homeless. It’s almost never below freezing and rarely very hot. It’s not arid, but never rains all that much.

I mean, jesus — compare:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Climate

San Francisco is cooler, warmer, sunnier, and drier than NYC. There’s little blue-collar crime other than other homeless people. I’d prefer Santa Monica, too, but San Franciscans seems to be softer touches.

#78
by theslothook // May 15, 2023 – 3:57pm

SF is pretty windy, foggy, generally quite cold even during peak summer months and the streets travel up high elevations. My point is, if you want a great weather place to be homeless, SF isn’t it. By comparison, parts of the bay area directly south, north and east are more temperate. The services, however, are not so generous and the suburban population would turn into Texas gun holders the minute the homeless started camping where they live.

There is already major grumbling about the preponderance of RVs parked in neighborhoods in expensive zip codes.

#71
by Theo // May 15, 2023 – 12:36pm

Here’s an anecdote:

[Edit]

I dont live there, and I wouldn’t move there even if you paid my mortgage.

#72
by theslothook // May 15, 2023 – 12:41pm

Did you mean, “I wouldn’t move there…”?

Or are you saying it’s so attractive to live there, mortgage be damned?

#83
by Theo // May 17, 2023 – 12:33pm

*wouldn’t

I couldnt live in the US. Beautiful country but too many problems.

#86
by theslothook // May 17, 2023 – 1:33pm

Is this your view for every country in Europe? All of their largest countries? Only nordic?

I recently had a spirited debate with someone about Europe vs America and the pros and cons. Its an utterly fascinating discussion and weighs a lot of personal value systems; especially with respect to equality vs growth vs immigration, etc etc.

I personally love visiting Europe and adore the food culture, but I’d rather be in the US.

#88
by guest from Europe // May 18, 2023 – 5:09am

Its an utterly fascinating discussion and weighs a lot of personal value systems; especially with respect to equality vs growth vs immigration, etc etc.

I thought this isn’t allowed here. If it is, i can tell you that the largest problem with living in the USA for me and people that i know would be weapons, crimes… In a city of 1 million inhabitants in a poor EU country we have 1-5 murders/year and it’s usually when fighting within a family.

I could write you many anecdotes what people who visited USA didn’t like, but i suppose you prefer general arguments. Those are: it’s another continent, totally different culture, different language that most Europeans don’t speak, different life values, different news etc. Everyone loves American nature! Whoever moves to USA has to be ready to leave their “previous life” behind them and start a new one. That may be good economically eventually, but it’s very hard for your identity.

In USA everything is valued by money, wealth, ownership… most people i met in various countries don’t think that way and aren’t interested in that. They just want to have affordable living. “You can eat only one lunch per day” no matter how rich you are. Example: people here know who is an owner of some NFL team, this appears on the TV etc. In Europe not. Only if such a rich “owner” does something bad and there is a riot, only then his name is mentioned.

USA is more tolerant towards immigrants than rich EU countries, there are better business opportunities, but there is much more risk, no health insurance etc. So people who go to another continent are usually those that “have nothing to lose in life” (young and poor) or want to take risks… some go to China, some to USA, some to Africa…

In my opinion the countries that are more similar to USA economically/culturally are Russia, Vietnam, Japan, modern China… not EU countries.

Every EU country is different (history, culture, language…). Europe is decaying, but there is still a lot of cultural “value” and “joy” in its diversity and “intelect”.

Anecdote: last summer i met an older couple from California, San Francisco area. They moved to Mediterranean, spend about 5 months/year in California, run their business there. They told me that life here is much better and that they made more friends in 1 year living here than in their whole life in California.

#89
by Theo // May 18, 2023 – 9:46am

I said US, and you ask me about countries in Europe.

I used to live in the Netherlands, which is amazing. Safe, clean and excellent conditions.

Europe is generally good to live (except for the major cities, which have turned FUBAR by mass immigration) But ‘Europe’ is so different from place to place. Living in Italy is completely different from living in Nordic countries and you can’t compare Belgium with Poland etc.

I have since moved to Taiwan and love it. Except for the traffic and air pollution it’s great.

“I’d rather be in the US”.

I don’t know where you live in the US and what the living conditions are there. And of course, there are many places where I could live in the US. But generally – the country is messed up on a federal level. I mean… I don’t want to get into politics or the other things where the population is divided on. So I’ll stop here.

#90
by theslothook // May 18, 2023 – 12:20pm

Replying to both of you.

I apologize because I mistakenly assumed you came from Europe given you commented about Europe below. Note, I am going to be massively generalizing when I say, “Europe” and it really means continental Europe. I am also generalizing when I say, “US”. Neither are homogenous blobs. Bethesda Maryland is very different from Baltimore or San Francisco or Palo Alto, just as I am sure Bologna is completely different from Naples which is very different from Copenhagen(I plan to visit both places in Italy this summer).

First to US and the gun policy. A thoughtful major crimes detective talked about this. Right now, we have a culture of gun ownership that’s pretty hard wired and hard to break out of and the horse has left the barn door so to speak. And its doubly crazy that the weapons we desire look at lot less like hunting and self defense firearms and more like tactical infantry weapons. So this is a legitimately problematic issue with the US and not one easily solved with policy.

Of course, everyone has preferences and should live where they like. There is no one right answer at all. The US has many many problems but so does seemingly every country with large populations. To be honest, the parts that I find so fascinating touch on other dimensions. The major European countries have decided to have high marginal tax rates that are very broad so that they touch practically the entire tax base not just the rich, and in some cases, very onerous business regulations. They also have very generous welfare states such that extreme poverty is absolutely not a thing and health care access is provided to everyone. There is a sense that everyone is more or less equal in status(this is something I am curious if true btw. When I went to France, you could feel the same conspicuous consumption standards that I felt in New York or London). Europe has far better infrastructure, better mass transportation, and safer streets by in large.

The US, by comparison, has lower taxes and more favorable business regulations. It is much easier to fire people in the US, thus insecurity is higher in the US. But it does imply that the talented can make a lot more money in the US. Its partially why I have seen so many European engineers coming to America. The US also attracts more immigrants, both educated and uneducated. This has a truly transformative effect on their lives and of course, the US benefits greatly from all of the talent that comes to its shores. And of course, the US is is far more innovative than Europe in general. New ideas get created and used all over the world.

Thats my simple summary.

#91
by guest from Europe // May 18, 2023 – 4:27pm

Some tourist advice: if you want to visit everything between Bologna and Napoli, you need at least a month. Roma at least a week. Italian towns in middle ages were town-states and each one has a history and something to see. Bologna and Firenze are close geographically, but very different… all of this in just one country! All the other European countries are totally different.

There is absolutely nothing in common between European countries. On the other hand USA is comparatively more homogenous regarding language, history, culture, money. There are differences from city to city in everyday life.

There are readers here from Britain and other countries. Perhaps they can write something.

They also have very generous welfare states such that extreme poverty is absolutely not a thing and health care access is provided to everyone.

Yes, this is “Europe”. Why would you have an organized country, if not for this welfare (if it can be provided)? Scandinavian countries are the best in the world at this. Then France, Benelux. European east is poorer, but within a country it used to be communism, so everyone was the same. Nowadays in east is more crony capitalism.

Europe has far better infrastructure, better mass transportation, and safer streets by in large.

This is very important to me, not tax rates.

There is a sense that everyone is more or less equal in status

Totally not true about status, due to history, nobility that you can’t meet (like castes in India) etc. No American or Russian billionaire could ever really reach such status.

In larger western European cities there are ghettos formed by immigrants who mostly don’t speak the language and came from a different culture and/or continent. There are many integration problems.

Some countries don’t like other ones, look upon others… There are regions, dialects, rivalries within a country etc. I don’t want to write history and sociology essays. So, it’s large cultural inequality, not economical. In USA it’s probably reverse.

When I went to France, you could feel the same conspicuous consumption standards that I felt in New York or London

It depends how you define this. I doubt that anyone ever matched the French in luxury, standards, fashion, consumption, food, style…

(Britain is quite different from continental Europe. They are closer to USA)

But it does imply that the talented can make a lot more money in the US. Its partially why I have seen so many European engineers coming to America. The US also attracts more immigrants, both educated and uneducated.

True. As i wrote in the previous post, not everyone chases money. There is no right or wrong in this, it’s a personal choice.

#92
by theslothook // May 18, 2023 – 4:53pm

Some tourist advice: if you want to visit everything between Bologna and Napoli, you need at least a month. Roma at least a week. Italian towns in middle ages were town-states and each one has a history and something to see. Bologna and Firenze are close geographically, but very different… all of this in just one country! All the other European countries are totally different.

We have 14 days and we’re going to be doing a very American style see it all in as little time as possible. I personally do not subscribe to this when visiting a new place. Low and slow is better. But unfortunately, when I posed this on Marginal Revolution, an overwhelming number of responses basically said you need to see all of these places because they are that iconic. As such, we are going to jam Venice, Padua, Bologna, Cinque Terre, Rome, Pompei, Amalfi, Pisa, and Parma all in one trip. It is ambitious for sure and not my first preference, but Italy has been the country I have wanted to visit since I was unemployed out of college and this was the ultimate ambition of mine. In that period, I have visited lots of countries but never this one for reasons I still can’t understand.

#94
by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 4:54am

You can skip Pisa and Parma. Fairly close to Venezia is Trieste, a very different town, more Austrian style, but on the coast. Not many tourists there.

In between geographically from Venezia to Napoli are Perugia, Assissi, Firenze, Siena, San Gimignano, Volterra, Ferrara, Ravenna, San Marino…all very interesting. Plus the Alps, Milano, coasts, Sicily, Sardinia…

You should leave out Roma, you don’t have the time for it. And fly there another time. You can come to Italy every summer if you want. Flights are cheaper nowadays.

What you are doing is joining huge American summer tourist crowds. They piss all over Italian towns in the streets during the night! And you complain above about cleanliness in S.F.

I would recommend you to stay north: Venezia to Siena or south: Roma to Amalfi coast.

You can cover all of this by trains. Don’t need a rent-a-car service. Italian streets are narrow and traffic is a large problem.

#96
by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 9:53am

Should be clear, we are going in September, hopefully after Tourist season has ended.

I am personally not as big a fan of visiting major cities. Paris was nice, but we enjoyed traveling from Neice to Menton and wandering that area far more. However, it’s Rome and it’s iconic.

Any reason to skip the places you have mentioned? For the record, we are starting in Milan and going south. Seeing the alps is less of a priority as we visited Switzerland last year for a week before going to India. Btw, skiing Zermatt was a lifetime worthy experience.

#102
by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 3:50pm

we are going in September, hopefully after Tourist season has ended

It never ends in Italy. It’s a big tourist country. Those towns are small and narrow, everything in walking distance, crowded with tourists from all over the world.

Any reason to skip the places you have mentioned?

There isn’t that much to see.

For the record, we are starting in Milan and going south. Seeing the alps is less of a priority

Milano is far north. From there you can see the lakes on the border with Switzerland. There is no way you can cover Milano to Roma in 2 weeks. So, try to start in Roma or Venezia, they have international airports. If it’s Milano, than stay north: Milano, Como, Bergamo, Venezia, Padua, Cinque Terre, Ravenna, Ferrara, San Marino. If there is time, Tuscany: Lucca, Firenze, Volterra, Siena

Paris is very large. In Italy all the towns are more similar to Nice. I mostly walk in Rome. To see Rome 4 days is a minimum! That means skipping the churches

#93
by theslothook // May 18, 2023 – 4:59pm

That’s why I feel its so fascinating. In some sense, you cant have generous welfare without a very wide and steep tax policy. And then once you have such a generous welfare state, you cannot then be very pro immigration.

I will say, the economist Bryan Caplan made a particularly interesting comment. He said, if he compared a middle class suburb of a decently large American city(he lives somewhere between Maryland and Virginia); he suggested those people enjoy a better quality of life on most dimensions as compared to similar people in Europe. He then pointed to the ability to owning a car, square footage of the house, meat consumption, and access to air conditioning as real difference makers between the two. Economist Valerie Ramey was talking about colleagues of hers in Europe don’t use contractors because its so expensive, so they paint the houses themselves along with most repairs. On the other hand, my Bulgarian friend has real disdain for American laziness on this dimension and thinks its rather wonderful that he’s so versed as a carpenter and mechanic.

I have cousins in Denmark who brought empty suitcases with them and loaded up on consumer goods when they were here. Even though San Francisco is notoriously expensive, they couldn’t believe how cheap everything was. Costco felt like nirvana. I also learned from them that despite having two PHD professors as parents, they lived in a two story house where the top story was occupied by another family. The whole family relied on one shared car. In times prior to Covid, a person could not live almost anywhere in California without a car. I have a friend who has 4 between just he and his wife.

Even still, Denmark is reportedly the happiest place on earth so clearly they have far better amenities that make a huge difference.

#95
by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 5:24am

In some sense, you cant have generous welfare without a very wide and steep tax policy.

The highest taxes have the Scandinavian countries. They are the best organized, have the most welfare, no homeless there (they would freeze), but no very rich people either. They want to pay the taxes. An anecdote: one guy immigrated to work in Sweden or Norway. After a few months he found some loophole how his company could pay a lot less taxes. He went with this to his bosses. They told him him: “we don’t do this. we want to pay taxes”. He lost his integrity.

And then once you have such a generous welfare state, you cannot then be very pro immigration.

Absolutely false. Scandinavians are the most benevolent towards immigrants. There is a very strong leftist public opinion, so they embrace immigrants. When immigrants don’t integrate and form ghettos, some problems occur (e.g. Sweden). Countries that aren’t so open to immigrants are poorer ones and also large ones, those which had many colonies in the past.

In USA you have larger houses because Europe is overcrowded. There is no space left. But most people in EU cities rent flats, about 90%. In countryside they own their houses.

in Europe don’t use contractors because its so expensive, so they paint the houses themselves along with most repairs.

I guess this is countryside. Flat owner in a city has the duty to do the repairs.

He then pointed to the ability to owning a car, square footage of the house, meat consumption, and access to air conditioning as real difference makers between the two.

Europeans have all of this, you consume a lot more, 2-3 times more. Bulgarians and Romanians and Hungarians and Polish are poorer. They have to repair their own stuff.

Even though San Francisco is notoriously expensive, they couldn’t believe how cheap everything was. Costco felt like nirvana.

Scandinavia is very expensive for everyone. Germany is cheaper than USA in some aspects: clothes… you have cheap electronics.

I also learned from them that despite having two PHD professors as parents, they lived in a two story house where the top story was occupied by another family. The whole family relied on one shared car.

This is a normal family. Modest. You don’t have to buy stuff and throw it away the next year. Such a family in central Europe would be richer, have more stuff.

In times prior to Covid, a person could not live almost anywhere in California without a car. I have a friend who has 4 between just he and his wife.

This is disgusting. And you complain about homeless people. Your friend could help some of them. It would make you feel better than owning stupid cars. I rely on bicycle and public transport. Never had a driver’s license.

Even still, Denmark is reportedly the happiest place on earth so clearly they have far better amenities that make a huge difference.

It’s Finnland. All the Scandinavian countries are high on the list, along with New Zealand and Switzerland. Maybe it’s because of infrastructure and high taxes, maybe because they are less populated.

i thought you were a libertarian who wants no taxes in Sillicon Valley. And then you write like this about Denmark. Taxes are absolutely necessary. Who will stop the fires in California? How will the roads be built? You should increase taxes and spend the money well on infrastructure and for social services to those who are poor. Not spend money on NFL stadiums.

(I hope my sentences aren’t too blunt, this is just a lot to write)

#97
by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 9:57am

i thought you were a libertarian who wants no taxes in Sillicon Valley

I never said this. Never intimated this either. In past posts with regards to taxes, I want to have an efficient tax code. Deciding how high or how low it should be is a different topic. But having an efficient tax system should be a bipartisan, universally accepted position. Economic theory gives us an idea of what kinds of taxes are efficient. Our current system is terribly inefficient.

This is disgusting. And you complain about homeless people. Your friend could help some of them. It would make you feel better than owning stupid cars. I rely on bicycle and public transport. Never had a driver’s license.

I am going to stop going further on this thread as it has now moved well beyond football and into the realm of deep politics. I would only say the following: how much one gives to others or deems having ‘enough’ is very much a personal judgement. A value judgement. And I am always leery of applying personal values, even my own, onto everyone else.

#103
by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 4:03pm

how much one gives to others or deems having ‘enough’ is very much a personal judgement. A value judgement.

I agree. As i wrote at the end of last comment, if my words are too blunt or aggresive, i apologize. This is not the easiest thing to do: to write about a lot of aspects of life in short comments in a foreign language.

Why would 2 people have 4 cars? Isn’t that stupid?

#105
by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 6:37pm

Why would 2 people have 4 cars? Isn’t that stupid

1 of their cars is a pickup truck that was his wife’s that she uses for various things. She owned this before marriage

1 is(was, he sold it after covid) an m5 bmw. He is a car enthusiast and lots of my friends are also car enthusiasts(I am not)

1 is a Tesla SUV which they wanted presumably now that they have two small children and needed a bigger vehicle

1 is one of the nicer model Teslas. I forgot why he got that one.

Before the m5, he had an e36 bmw that was a pet project of his.

He is by far the wealthiest person I am personally close friends with. That’s what becoming a Google VP early in your career will get you. Puts the rest of us middle class techies to shame.

But I think the easiest way understand it is, he’s a car enthusiast and cars are his hobby and he has the money to enjoy that hobby. My bulgarian friend is also a car enthusiast, specifically bmws. He has an older model m3, and older model e46 and his own pet project e36. He makes good money as a mech engineer, but nowhere close to the friend above. He still spends money on the cars because that’s his passion.

Btw, I grew up with a father who despite coming from a pretty well off background, despises spending money at all. So much so that he has effectively 0 hobbies and made sure his wife never got to indulge much either. We never went out much to eat. Our vacations came when my mom had conferences and the plane ticket and hotel was paid. So I’ve seen the opposite side where you drive out all of the joy in anything in service to sitting on a pile of cash.

#106
by guest from Europe // May 20, 2023 – 4:25am

the opposite side where you drive out all of the joy in anything in service to sitting on a pile of cash.

There are many people in Germany that are like this.

My general point was that people are more important than things. Someone who is rich can try to help someone very poor. You can’t help poor people in Argentina or some African country, but you can help someone in San Francisco: start some non-profit organization for homeless or something where they get free food that would be thrown away. Noone chooses to be homeless.

I am not patronizing what to do in life. However, this is more important than an abstract discussion. People are no resources or assets or garbage to walk over them. If anyone who is rich can help even 1 poor person to have a better life, it’s a progress.

(this isn’t directed at anyone particular, just general thoughts)

#98
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 19, 2023 – 12:57pm

Having encountered so many Europeans who hector Americans about literally everything, I have increasingly come to understand why my ancestors all left Europe for someplace else.

#100
by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 1:26pm

My Bulgarian friend who is a mechanical engineer rants non stop about how bad Americans are. He has particular disdain for SUV drivers. He thinks the American work ethic is largely bad and is propped up by immigrant workers. He views America as founded on imperialism; that its effectively like the USSR but they have better PR to hoodwink its population. He thinks there too much sugar everywhere in American food(he’s kind of right there).

In a way, I like having him as a general contrast to the typical person I interact with. The Indians I have met who have migrated here actually enjoy the US by in large.

I will say, I personally think American food values are not the greatest and its not aimed at just obesity. Once more, I am generalizing, but I think they’ve utterly destroyed standard Thai and Indian food as both have become absolutely mediocre versions of the real thing. And Olive Garden has probably warped the opinions of what proper Italian food should be. I had no idea what actual Chinese food was until I met some graduate students from China who introduced me to proper Sichuan and Dimsum. My few asian friends just assumed I wanted panda express and never introduced me to the concept of Chinese Banquet food.

To bring it back to football. Much like the rules have been bent to favor passing and points, so too has the American palate and that sucks for people who like spice, textures, and great defense.

#104
by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 4:16pm

Europeans who hector Americans about literally everything,

This wasn’t my intention. I apologize. I tried to write some matter-of-fact sentences about living conditions. I guess i failed. it’s quite difficult to understand what anyone means here. Any sentence of yours can be interpreted in various ways.

There are large cultural differences between us. I don’t think there is any superiority in this, no right or wrong as i have written somewhere above. Somebody chooses to live in Denmark, somebody else in California. Somebody is born in Iraq, somebody else in Sudan and can’t leave. Luck plays a big role in life.

#75
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 3:43pm

People make the mistake of thinking that the presence of homeless people is a sign of flaws in a city, but the reason homeless people are there is because San Francisco takes care of them. If you see a city with no homeless people, that’s a screwed-up city. They’ve all had to leave.

I have to question your city design when your ideal state is 100% homelessness.

\mine exists in a indeterminate state which oscillates between utopian and dystopian until you open the box and measure the cat.

#81
by serutan // May 16, 2023 – 2:06pm

\mine exists in a indeterminate state which oscillates between utopian and dystopian until you open the box and measure the cat.

I had no idea there was such a thing as a Schroedinger city.

#82
by guest from Europe // May 17, 2023 – 4:55am

Here is a real life representation of that (non) cat:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/schroedinger-cat-zurich-switzerland

#99
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 19, 2023 – 12:58pm

It’s not clear if it does, until you open the box.

#46
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 2:50pm

The same state governments that give the finger to the auto industry and the petrochemical industry?

The NFL’s market cap isn’t bad, but it’s still smaller than Tesla or Toyota. In terms of revenue, they would be 30th, behind Mahindra (Indian tractor and knockoff jeep manufacturer). Their revenue is half of Isuzu’s.

They’d be the 7th biggest oil company, but are less than 1/10th the size of Aramco. In revenue, they barely exist. They’ve be somewhere in the 70s, mixed in with companies you’ve never heard of. Big Oil makes more in profit each year than the NFL is worth as a whole.

Yet states mess with those guys, plus the medical industry, plus… There’s no power like no accountability.

#51
by SandyRiver // May 12, 2023 – 4:22pm

When is the Aramco vs. BP game on TV and how many million viewers are anticipated? The NFL’s public footprint/influence vs. its “GDP” is enormous.

#53
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 4:35pm

It’s influence makes up most of its market cap. The NFL’s revenue vs market cap is not particularly high. (It’s cash-poor, basically. See also, Mark Davis)

#28
by Travis // May 11, 2023 – 3:05pm

The Rangers and Knicks can’t play “home” games outside of Madison Square Garden because doing so would cause the teams to forfeit their property tax exemption.

#42
by IlluminatusUIUC // May 12, 2023 – 11:03am

Is that why? I recall when the Sabres played the Rangers in Queens, it was listed as a home game for the Sabres.

#70
by Mike B. In Va // May 15, 2023 – 11:40am

That fits with how NYC would handle things. They’ve lost plenty of teams to the suburbs.

#7
by Theo // May 10, 2023 – 1:30pm

NFL is very popular in Europe, it is not as big as soccer and other sports but some people really like it.

NFL Europe games sold out Rhein Stadium and whatever Galaxy played at.

Further away in Amsterdam, London and Barcelona it never really got off the ground.

Every city in Europe has a football team, but it goes from recreational sports (Netherlands, Belgium etc) to leagues that play Semi Pro in Germany, France, Italy.

If you could call it Semi Pro.

Kids play flag, play tackle after 16yo. Most clubs have a children division.

The problem is the time difference and the fact that there is no financial foundation to get enough people crazy enough to smash into each other just for fun.

In Europe, it really is only played by people who enjoy it. While in america people see it as a way to get through college and even further.

#9
by chrism // May 10, 2023 – 2:18pm

My understanding of NFL Europe was that it was a big hit in Germany due to American service-members stationed there, in a way that Spain, the Netherlands, and even the UK never had the same sort of “hundreds of thousands of young American men are here, and they want to feel like they are back home” effect. With the withdrawal of most American troops from Germany, is it popular enough with the locals?

#10
by guest from Europe // May 10, 2023 – 3:02pm

It’s popular and gaining popularity. For the last 7-8 years it’s on German TV 2 top games of the week + all playoff games. (I am no German but watch German TV.) The studio crew is quite funny, not insightful, but funny, jokes, tweets of fans in the middle of the night are shown. B. Werner shows some moves in the studio…

It’s probably more or equally as popular as in the UK.

Theo wrote a good comment. He knows more than me.

I guess at some point there will be a division in Europe: 4 teams in London, somewhere in Germany (Munich?), maybe Paris or Madrid. Spanish people like sports. Maybe in Moscow. That way there would be a natural rivalry among the 4 teams.

#23
by Joey-Harringto… // May 11, 2023 – 1:28pm

”I guess at some point there will be a division in Europe: 4 teams in London, somewhere in Germany (Munich?), maybe Paris or Madrid. Spanish people like sports. Maybe in Moscow.”

The time zones and travel involved would make that a complete mess (unless and until there’s a major advancement in commercial air travel to mitigate the latter). Imagine the Munich team traveling to Los Angeles and back. By the time they get over the jet lag, it’ll be time for their next game. I think resurrecting NFL Europe (perhaps as a ‘minor league’) would be their best bet.

At the risk of violating rule #1, I don’t think the people in Moscow will want to be associated with anything American for a few generations.

#24
by guest from Europe // May 11, 2023 – 2:00pm

traveling logistics: probably a team from L.A. comes to Europe for 4 weeks and plays all four European teams on the road in a series of games, than flyes home, bye week, than 4 home games. A team from Munich flies twice per year to USA to play a series of 4 away games each time.

American sports are popular in Russia. American and Russian men have a lot in common, women not so much. Russian women wouldn’t be interested in this, i think. It would be more probable there than in Italy or France or Scandinavia or Benelux or Turkey. This is a few decades away anyway.

#48
by IlluminatusUIUC // May 12, 2023 – 4:00pm

It would have to be the whole division at once. As in, all of the NFC North decamps to Europe for a month, then all of the Europe division comes to the MidWest for a month.

#50
by guest from Europe // May 12, 2023 – 4:15pm

Yes. Europe division plays away games in USA in September and December. The players are Americans. Training in summer in USA. December with family in USA.

Playoffs? I don’t know. Fly on Tesla spacecrafts.

#84
by Theo // May 17, 2023 – 12:39pm

Nah. They want to actually arrive at the destination. Safely.

#61
by guest from Europe // May 13, 2023 – 4:28pm

In Europe, it really is only played by people who enjoy it. While in america people see it as a way to get through college and even further.

This applies to every major sport in Europe. It’s played by young children on amateur level. When they show a lot of talent, they usually drop out of school during teenage years or finish some “simple” school (to be a waiter or similar) and sign a professional contract (their parents sign it because they are under age) and play it professionally.

There is no developed college system, sport stipends, college teams etc. what have you in USA. This is a big cultural difference. No university has a famous sports team that i know of. (There is rowing in Britain…) Whoever goes to university in Europe, goes to study.

In Europe major teams usually have B and C teams where they develop young players. They play the same sport in lower leagues. Weaker, poorer teams don’t have that much money to pay the stars, so they employ young players, develop them and earn from their transfer fees to richer major clubs.

There are less famous individual sports where a professional athlete doesn’t earn enough prize money and gets a job by the state to be part-time employed (example: biathlon pros are employed by the army to be shooting instructors).

There are olympic sports where athletes are still amateurs. I know of one guy who is a full-time waiter and earned Olympic gold in London 2012 in a minor sport. After that he came back home and continued working. Nothing changed. He participated in Rio 2016.

#85
by Theo // May 17, 2023 – 12:47pm

Many athletes can go pro during their career by the way of sponsorships though.

But you’d be very lucky if that career lasts more than 5 years. Kiss the stars if it’s more than 10.

Ice skating is a good example in the Netherlands.

But yeah, soccer players will have to be picked up by a team thats willing to pay them.

Kids of 14 or 16 years old signing contracts (or, their parents) is not a weird thing in soccer.

#87
by guest from Europe // May 18, 2023 – 4:27am

Kids of 14 or 16 years old signing contracts (or, their parents) is not a weird thing in soccer.

It’s quite regular. At that age even players from other continents are signed to contracts, are “imported” for development. In other sports with balls (basketball, handball, volleyball…) they sign pro contracts at age of 18-19.

Many athletes can go pro during their career by the way of sponsorships though.

I would guess this is true for some athletes, who play a semi-popular sport or if a rich country doesn’t have many gold medalists, somebody will sponsor them. But if they have to compete with other athletes for a sponsor, not all of them get good deals. For example, who sponsors weight lifters or canoeists?

In poorer countries without rich industries, the state sponsors them by giving them a job or they are amateurs.

#11
by guest from Europe // May 10, 2023 – 3:29pm

Can football even be something the kids in Europe grow up watching and playing?

Watching yes, playing probably no. This would be limited to children who like wrestling or something. There are a small amount of people who play it. People see the collisions among players. This wouldn’t be encouraged for children to do. In UK some people play rugby, but it’s rare.

guess basketball has kind of paved the way forward, but it seems to me the NFL needs its version of Dirk

Inadverently you have insulted many people who play basketball. It was always popular, decades ago, the second most popular sport. It’s played in schools. Maybe you can calculate the talent rate of basketball players in Lithuania, Serbia, Croatia, Greece, France, Spain add it up and compare it with USA. Something like NBA starters/ total population. You might be surprised.

American players are way more athletic. It is thought in many circles that “pure” basketball is played in Europe. Every game is important, no “star calls” by referees, no traveling, shooting, not dunking… Curry is the best example what would be an ideal European basketball player.

NBA became popular with Magic and Lakers. Dirk Nowitzki made it somewhat popular in Germany.

Countries where basketball isn’t popular are UK and Germany and Scandinavian countries.

#12
by theslothook // May 10, 2023 – 4:27pm

Sorry that wasn’t my intention. Clearly this isn’t the topic I know much about so that’s why I was asking. When I was watching basketball, there were only a handful of great players who were European born and raised. Dirk was the only one who was a true blue superstar while I was watching. Peja, Vlade, Tony Parker were all stars and really good but none transcendent.

Perhaps this is purely coincidence, but there’s a real argument to be had that the four of the 10 best players in the NBA currently are all foreign-born players and three of them are from Europe. The top 3 MVP vote getters for the second year in a row were from Europe and Africa. And right now a generational prospect is coming from France.

If If it wasn’t for positional diversity, You can make an argument that a five-man roster full of foreign born players would be better than a roster with all American players.

This represents quite a shift from the days I started watching.

#15
by guest from Europe // May 11, 2023 – 3:16am

Sorry that wasn’t my intention. Clearly this isn’t the topic I know much about so that’s why I was asking.

I know. When i wrote that you offended some people crazy about basketball, i also didn’t write that they are very irrational about it. So, they are real fanatics. Once when i was ouside of an arena in Athens, Greece during a basketball game i could sense some vibrations in my legs due to fans going crazy inside. Maybe it was just sound, maybe they caused a “minor earthquake”. It can’t be explained with words what they do during games. Search for some videos.

So you didn’t really offend anyone sane. You don’t have fanatics… and i used to strong of a word, it’s not an insult.

You can make an argument that a five-man roster full of foreign born players would be better than a roster with all American players.

Basketball purists in Europe make this argument non-stop since Sydney Olympic games. There are players who claim they don’t want to go to NBA.

(I know a lot more about basketball than about american football)

#26
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 11, 2023 – 2:10pm

The US puts together an ad-hoc team every few years, plays the best players from around the world under a different set of rules, and usually wins. It’s considered a crisis if they do not.

The US isn’t as far ahead as in football (where teams of graduating HS players and sub D-I college players regularly annihilate the best teams any other country can put together), but it’s pretty far ahead in basketball.

#30
by guest from Europe // May 11, 2023 – 6:24pm

All true. The other countries closest to USA in basketball are small in population, the talent pool is too small. Add them up, and the population would still be smaller than in USA.

Brasil usually wins their football games for a similar reason. It’s considered a crisis if they do not.

#31
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 11, 2023 – 10:31pm

I think it’s important that the rules and dimensions are different.

You are basically putting together a Rugby League team from Rugby Union all-stars, giving them a week to prepare, and asking them to dominate. And they usually do.

#33
by guest from Europe // May 12, 2023 – 4:36am

This is a totally wrong exaggeration. There is a difference between rugby and NFL in forward passing! Your equivalent would be a rugby team coming to NFL and playing vs. NFL team without QBs, like 49ers in NFC CG.

The rules differences between various basketball leagues are minute in comparison. In other leagues there are no “unwritten star rules and calls”.

#36
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 8:59am

FIBA literally has a different court and different rules than American basketball as taught from elementary school onwards. Europe plays a different game than the rest of the world.

\I’m always surprised at how the French conned everyone into thinking that their version of a given sport was the “International” one.

#37
by guest from Europe // May 12, 2023 – 9:20am

A smaller court size. A slightly closer 3-pt line. What different rules are this? Zone defense? I think in the last decade FIBA rules moved closer to those in the NBA. I remember that traveling rules changed in the NBA more than a decade ago. An extra step was allowed or something similar in the rule was redefined. Those rule differences are marginal at most. Similar to NFL rule changes. In short: both FIBA and NBA change rules slightly.

European rules are different from those in Argentina? Australia? China? Are you sure? As far as i know they play under FIBA rules.

You are writing this as if it were the same type of difference that exists between tennis and badminton or tennis and table tennis.

\I’m always surprised at how the French conned everyone into thinking that their version of a given sport was the “International” one.

I don’t know what is this referencing. You know too much or are too cynical for me to understand every sentence of yours. So, please explain.

Or is this because of de Coubertin starting the olympic sports and defined some rules?

#47
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 2:57pm

FIBA is French, even though basketball was a Canadian/American sport and it had a central rules authority.

FIFA is French, even though football was British and had a central rules authority.

The International Rugby League is French, even though rugby is British and had (two!) central rules authorities (league vs union).

Then there is FIG, FIE, etc.

The French haven’t taken cricket over yet, mostly because they don’t play it.

There is a reason I used rugby league vs rugby union as my example. Despite being recognizably the same game, the rules are sufficiently different that how the game is played is different and the rule differences are sufficiently large as to present an obstacle to a player moving from one code to the other.

#49
by guest from Europe // May 12, 2023 – 4:07pm

Yeah, we are in the “you know too much” territory. I am just a child in comparison to you… i guess you tried to explain something to me, but i didn’t get it.

I forgot to write comparing NBA and Euroleague: the rule differences practically don’t matter because the best european players play in the NBA. When they go to a national team FIBA tournament, they have to adjust to the rules, like Americans. The same with NHL and european players: larger ice rink in Europe, different forechecking rules.

There is a reason I used rugby league vs rugby union as my example. Despite being recognizably the same game, the rules are sufficiently different that how the game is played is different and the rule differences are sufficiently large as to present an obstacle to a player moving from one code to the other.

i don’t know much about rugby or what these rule differences are. I thought you were comparing rugby to NFL.

FIBA is in Switzerland and was founded in Switzerland.

FIFA is in Switzerland and was founded in France. The rest i’ve never heard of. What do you have against Switzerland? I guess they are there for diplomatic or money laundering reasons.

I have to ask: are you really human? Are you some alien or AI? Who knows all of these things? What is your education? You cover medicine, math, stats, phyiscs, general history, sports history, sports rules, economy, literature….

#54
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 4:37pm

Information has never been easier to find. It’s just a matter of curiousity.

#55
by guest from Europe // May 12, 2023 – 5:05pm

I guess info about history and rules.

How can you find information that Shakespeare used other writers topics? You write about basic laws of mechanics, about viruses, some economy theories… these are no factual informations, it’s knowledge.

#63
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 9:04am

Undergrad at least touched on all of these. Well, english majors love Shakespeare, but his plagiarism is not exactly hidden. It was common in an era where finding the original works was non-trivial. But it’s also part of the legend of Francis Bacon or some other great writer using Shakespeare as a pseudonym. (Also, lit majors don’t like talking about plagiarism, especially when it involves a Major Author, because it de-credits the entire field) The nature of the histories is more discussed academically.

#74
by guest from Europe // May 15, 2023 – 12:59pm

Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury

Signifying nothing.

(my worldview is close to this)

#52
by SandyRiver // May 12, 2023 – 4:26pm

Does the European three-second-rule area still expand toward the baseline? That rule mitigates against the big men in the middle.

#56
by guest from Europe // May 12, 2023 – 5:20pm

The lane area? No, it’s straight now. Since 2010 under FIBA even the lane size was changed and restricted area under basket introduced. All to make it more similar to NBA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(basketball)

The big differences are 40 minutes game, 5 fouls/player, less timeouts, shorter (by 3 feet) 3-pt line, smaller court, traveling is called, any type of defense allowed.

#64
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 9:05am

How times out work is different, and goal tending is different. Those are the two obvious differences at this point. It resembles NCAA basketball otherwise.

#73
by guest from Europe // May 15, 2023 – 12:55pm

How times out work is different,

This isn’t really rules of basketball, it’s number of timeouts for TV commercial purposes that you have.

and goal tending is different.

Goaltending was always the same: can’t touch the ball when it starts going down toward the basket. You probably mean defensive 3 seconds: in NBA a defensive player isn’t allowed to spend more than 3 seconds in the paint without being at arms length to an offense player. No such rule in Europe.

Decades ago there were differences: posession lasted 30 seconds, lane or paint had different shape, any movement of the pivot foot was called traveling, zone defense was dominant and wasn’t allowed in NBA etc. It’s been more than a decade since all these rules changed to resemble the NBA. Even that zone under the basket (where there is no offensive foul) was introduced. Nowadays the main players in Europe are Americans that don’t work out in the NBA. Best Europeans play in the NBA the whole career (since Nowitzki, Parker, Gasol bros and Stojaković). There are some good, but not elite Greek and Turkish and Serbian players that don’t go to NBA. Spanish try and fail in the NBA and come back to Spanish league.

#79
by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 4:06pm

https://basketnews.com/news-176033-differences-between-nba-and-fiba-rules.html
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/447554-nba-vs-fiba-7-rules-to-play-by
https://www.fiba.basketball/rule-differences
https://twitter.com/coopmavs/status/1423411267067338755

In FIBA you can play a ball on the rim. There are no live-ball timeouts, and the scoring team cannot take a timeout in the last 2 minutes. There is no advancement of the ball on a timeout.

The end-game in FIBA is rather foreign to NBA players, because here you encounter most of the rule differences.

#80
by guest from Europe // May 15, 2023 – 5:14pm

All true. Timeouts in FIBA are like timeouts in NFL, to stop time a few times per game, not to change the end sequence totally. In NBA you can call timeout after opponent scores with 2-3 seconds left and still have a very good chance because of advancement of the ball. In NFL or FIBA in such case you got only 1 hail mary play which doesn’t work. The last minute of NBA game is skewed. Does this exist in any other sport? I don’t like this in the NBA. “Last minute” lasts for half an hour with all the TV timeouts. I don’t watch it live anymore.

I read the first link. 3-pt distance difference is even smaller than i thought, about 0.5 meter or yard. Corner 3s are the same distance.

This is about travelling what i was writing above:

While the difference in calling the traveling violation has been one of the main differences throughout the last decades, several years ago, FIBA decided to bring its game closer to the NBA in that aspect.

The NBA has a so-called gather step when the player gains control of the basketball. It determines when and how the player can set its feet afterward. FIBA, meanwhile, has a so-called zero step.

After catching the ball, the foot that first touches the ground becomes the pivot from which all other actions can proceed. The player can then start dribbling the ball or take a two-step to finish the shot, hence, creating a three-step move together with a zero step.

Although the traveling rule took a leap closer to the NBA standard, FIBA referees are still way stricter in calling the violation compared to their colleagues on the other side of the pond.

All the other stuff is really minor marginal differences (touching the ball after it hits the rim is really rare).

So, recap: less timeouts, traveling called stricter, defensive 3 seconds allowed, 3-pt shorter at the top of the key, 40 minutes game with 5 fouls/player

You wrote at the beginning that it’s like another sport, NBA players really have to adjust… well, they shouldn’t travel! and should play basketball, not a game of timeouts.

I clearly “win” this argument, you are a loser and you have to give me a homeless car if i come to Detroit. (it will never happen)

#58
by bravehoptoad // May 12, 2023 – 9:42pm

Good heavens, I love this board.

#18
by BobbyDazzler // May 11, 2023 – 10:36am

As a UK NFL fan of 30+ years, there are loads of fans here and all of the London games sell out in a matter of minutes, regardless of who is playing. We have “American Football” leagues here too which have been going since the 1980’s, albeit with the level of play probably only on a par with US high schools, but with social media etc it’s obviously way easier to access NFL related stuff these days, so while I’m sceptical about a London NFL team being viable (given that everyone here already has their favourite NFL team and would be unlikely to change allegiance) there is more than enough interest to keep these international games going for the foreseeable future.

Clearly the NFL’s ultimate goal here is revenue generation, so as long as they can keep making money out of it, they’ll keep doing it.

#27
by BJR // May 11, 2023 – 2:27pm

Regular season NFL Sundays fall in a really nice time-slot here in the UK (and Western Europe). 6pm early kick-offs pretty much immediately follow the end of the weekend’s Premier League schedule. Then it’s on all night, depending on how long you can stay awake. I’ve got buddies who will go to great lengths to get away from their partners on a Sunday evening so they can watch Redzone in peace 🙂

And unlike NBA/MLB you don’t have to dedicate your entire life to keep track of it.

#21
by IlluminatusUIUC // May 11, 2023 – 11:21am

The Eagles are banned from Christmas for… well… you know.

#25
by mathesond // May 11, 2023 – 2:03pm

Eh, Santa’s usually back at the North Pole by then 🙂

#40
by RickD // May 12, 2023 – 10:29am

They still have a large national following.

#43
by KnotMe // May 12, 2023 – 12:15pm

Same reason they keep sticking the Patriots in prime time. Large fanbase that hasn’t dwindled quite yet.

#1 by johonny12 // May 10, 2023 – 11:09am

#2 by IlluminatusUIUC // May 10, 2023 – 11:46am

#3 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 10, 2023 – 12:35pm

#4 by Chuckc // May 10, 2023 – 12:38pm

#5 by BigRichie // May 10, 2023 – 12:50pm

#8 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 10, 2023 – 1:36pm

#13 by BigRichie // May 10, 2023 – 5:49pm

#14 by serutan // May 10, 2023 – 7:12pm

#38 by RickD // May 12, 2023 – 10:21am

#20 by IlluminatusUIUC // May 11, 2023 – 11:20am

#17 by Mike B. In Va // May 11, 2023 – 8:57am

#22 by MJK // May 11, 2023 – 11:21am

#29 by BigRichie // May 11, 2023 – 3:12pm

#34 by PackerPete // May 12, 2023 – 8:02am

#35 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 8:58am

#41 by BigRichie // May 12, 2023 – 10:58am

#69 by Mike B. In Va // May 15, 2023 – 11:36am

#39 by RickD // May 12, 2023 – 10:25am

#44 by Raiderfan // May 12, 2023 – 1:21pm

#45 by theslothook // May 12, 2023 – 1:35pm

#57 by bravehoptoad // May 12, 2023 – 9:35pm

#59 by theslothook // May 12, 2023 – 10:09pm

#62 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 9:01am

#66 by bravehoptoad // May 15, 2023 – 9:36am

#77 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 3:56pm

#101 by bravehoptoad // May 19, 2023 – 2:56pm

#65 by bravehoptoad // May 15, 2023 – 9:34am

#67 by BigRichie // May 15, 2023 – 10:51am

#68 by theslothook // May 15, 2023 – 11:01am

#76 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 3:52pm

#78 by theslothook // May 15, 2023 – 3:57pm

#71 by Theo // May 15, 2023 – 12:36pm

#72 by theslothook // May 15, 2023 – 12:41pm

#83 by Theo // May 17, 2023 – 12:33pm

#86 by theslothook // May 17, 2023 – 1:33pm

#88 by guest from Europe // May 18, 2023 – 5:09am

#89 by Theo // May 18, 2023 – 9:46am

#90 by theslothook // May 18, 2023 – 12:20pm

#91 by guest from Europe // May 18, 2023 – 4:27pm

#92 by theslothook // May 18, 2023 – 4:53pm

#94 by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 4:54am

#96 by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 9:53am

#102 by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 3:50pm

#93 by theslothook // May 18, 2023 – 4:59pm

#95 by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 5:24am

#97 by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 9:57am

#103 by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 4:03pm

#105 by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 6:37pm

#106 by guest from Europe // May 20, 2023 – 4:25am

#98 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 19, 2023 – 12:57pm

#100 by theslothook // May 19, 2023 – 1:26pm

#104 by guest from Europe // May 19, 2023 – 4:16pm

#75 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 15, 2023 – 3:43pm

#81 by serutan // May 16, 2023 – 2:06pm

#82 by guest from Europe // May 17, 2023 – 4:55am

#99 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 19, 2023 – 12:58pm

#46 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 2:50pm

#51 by SandyRiver // May 12, 2023 – 4:22pm

#53 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 12, 2023 – 4:35pm

#28 by Travis // May 11, 2023 – 3:05pm

#42 by IlluminatusUIUC // May 12, 2023 – 11:03am

#70 by Mike B. In Va // May 15, 2023 – 11:40am

#6 by theslothook // May 10, 2023 – 1:01pm

#7 by Theo // May 10, 2023 – 1:30pm

#9 by chrism // May 10, 2023 – 2:18pm

#10 by guest from Europe // May 10, 2023 – 3:02pm

#23 by Joey-Harringto… // May 11, 2023 – 1:28pm

#24 by guest from Europe // May 11, 2023 – 2:00pm

#48 by IlluminatusUIUC // May 12, 2023 – 4:00pm

#50 by guest from Europe // May 12, 2023 – 4:15pm

#84 by Theo // May 17, 2023 – 12:39pm

#61 by guest from Europe // May 13, 2023 – 4:28pm

#85 by Theo // May 17, 2023 – 12:47pm

#87 by guest from Europe // May 18, 2023 – 4:27am

#11 by guest from Europe // May 10, 2023 – 3:29pm

#12 by theslothook // May 10, 2023 – 4:27pm

#15 by guest from Europe // May 11, 2023 – 3:16am

#26 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 11, 2023 – 2:10pm

#30 by guest from Europe // May 11, 2023 – 6:24pm

#31 by Aaron Brooks G… // May 11, 2023 – 10:31pm

#1
by johonny12 // May 10, 2023 – 11:09am